Its The Ich!

[mr_walker]

I picked up a handful of extra neons the other day, because I happened to wander past a fish room with some healthy looking stock, and my population had slowly been dwindling away ....

Not having a quarantine tank, straight in they went (after being acclimatised). Good looking healthy fish, but a week later I started seeing the odd white spot or two pop up on some of my other fish.

When you see one spot you think - maybe it's just a loose scale or something. Two - still in denial. Three on the one fish - I had to concede that my tank has the Ich :mad:

I've got some standard Malachite Green & Formaldehyde med treatment from the LFS, which I'm dosing at 1/2 rate due to the Bristlenoses in my tank. I've cranked the temp up from 26 to about 29/30, and done a large water change before I medicated. Lights are out so the meds don't oxidise too quickly. No carbon in my filter.

Anything else I should be doing (fish are Angels, Bolivian Rams, assorted tetras, Bristlenose, SAE's)? Has anybody used this stuff in a planted tank? Is it going to nuke my biological filter and spike my tank?

Not happy Jan!

[joz]

All should be fine withb what you've done.
Time to wait now.

Don't be aftraid to re-treat the tank in a couple of days,must break the itch's life cycle.

[mr_walker]

Yeah - the meds I bought said treat again in 3 days. I'll keep the tank dark until then, do a big water change and then re-treat. Hope my plants survive for a week in darkness ... and they were just starting to take off too.

I just checked tonight, and the cysts have dropped off my black phantom tetras, but my BN still has a few.

Fish all seem to be crazy active at 30 deg. None of them are gasping for air so I'm guessing my trickle filter in the hood (Aqua One) really does do a good job of oxygenating the water. I'll be keeping a very close eye on things though.

[joz]

Don't fret, 30 degs isn't to hot.
Its discus temp.

Also make sure that the water you do the water change with is the same temp as the tank temp,otherwise you'll never get rid of the white spot.

[mr_walker]

BN has dropped all of its cysts this morning :)

[mr_walker]

Dammit - spotted a tetra with a cyst this morning :mad: It only takes one... so I think I'll give the half strength meds another burst tomorrow.

Does the malachite green + formaldehyde break down, or is it accumulating in my tank after repeated doses?

[mr_walker]

This stuff is mighty hard to get rid of! Each time I think it's gone, I spot one fish with another cyst. It's certainly not as bad as when it started out, but they're tenacious little beasties.

I'm keeping my heat boosted to just over 30, plenty of aeration, and the occasional hit of malachite green/formalin meds at half strength. I'm hoping the heat alone will be enough to knock it over, and I don't want to add salt to my tank because of the plants.

*sigh*

[Mick John]

Ever thought of a UV light Mate? Saves alot of headaches!

[mr_walker]

If this goes for much longer, I sure will be! (although I'm on a bit of a budget at the moment) I also read that diatomaceous filters are also good to trap the free swimmers.

I've given up on the toxic meds, and am stripping them out with carbon. I'm instead trying a low salt dosage and keeping up the heat treatment. At the moment only 2 cysts visible in the tank.

Haven't had time for frequent large water changes, but that will be the next step.

[joz]

Salt should work well,just remember that cat fish don't like it at all.

[mr_walker]

Yeah - I read that. How can I tell if the BN are not happy due to too much salt?

[joz]

They die..

[mr_walker]

LOL - that's really useful. :p

Update: Day 9 into the ich battle, and I think it's nearly gone. Only 1 fish with a possible cyst, but it's hard to tell. I'll keep the temp up for another week to make sure its sorted out properly. Heat treatment + some salt seems to be the go.

[miko]

Hey Mr Walker how did it all go?

Rather than start up another thread I will just add to yours. Did thhe plants survive the salt?

I am ahving a similar problem. I have lost 2 congo tetras and a clown loach in the past week due to ich. I placed in a hospital tank but probablly too late and couldn't get on top of the ich. It seems though my main tank 165ltr has the ich in it. I have done a 30% water change and cranked the heater upo to 28 deg. tomorrow will remove the carbon sponges and start adding salt. I have 1 platy and 1 green barb with couple spots on their fins. it seems it is slowly getting into all my fish in the main tank. :mad:

[joz]

The ich was probably triggered with the large water change,most likely if there was a large temp drop.
Keep the temp of new water as close as possible to the tank temp.
The sudden chill will cause white spot.

Now that you have it raise the temp,ich have difficulty in reproducing the warmer the temps is.Don't be afraid of 30/32 deg.

[mr_walker]

I had a hell of a time getting rid of it. Just when I thought it was over, it would re-appear again. I went through a few doses of meds and it didn't seem to sort it out so I resorted to the heat treatment. I was pretty sure I had knocked it out as I hadn't seen a spot in 5-6 days, but as soon as I backed the temperature off I had another outbreak. :mad:

I ended up raising the temperature to 31 degrees, and using a mild dose of salt. The temperature was over 30 degrees for close to 4 weeks all up, which I wasn't really happy with. I lost 9 neons and gave my BBA outbreak a free run, but everything else survived (including my plants).

I wasn't sure how the aquarium salt would affect my plants (or Bristlenoses) so I was just putting 6-8 teaspoons in the outflow of my trickle filter at a time (to dissolve slowly). I think I ended putting about 30 or so teaspoons in my 275 litre tank, which is not that strong as I was reading the recommended dose for fighting ich is 1 tsp per gallon (i.e. 75 teaspoons for my tank). That seemed like a lot.

Good luck with it!

[miko]

Well I cranked up the temperature and watched it for a few days. The temp sits at 28-29 deg and none of the fish have got any spots. i will leave it for a few days more and then turn the temp down to about 26.

I haven't added any salt or chemicals.

[joz]

Leave it a while longer, the whole itch life cycle must be broken.

IIRC,the itch will drop of but they may have laid eggs(?) that may hatch and reinfest when the water is cool enough.
If the temp remain high they will hatch and die before re-infesting and laying more eggs.
Itch can't tolerate heat but the eggs can until they hatch.


Found some info on it,here you go..
Treating White Spot Disease


White Spot Disease, also known as Ich or Ick, is a very common problem in aquariums and several different methods of treating it has been developed. In this article, we will take a close look at salt and malachite green. If salt or malachite green is the best available treatment for your particular aquarium depends on several different factors, including which species you keep and how sensitive they are to salt. Salt as well as malachite treatment is often combined with an increased water temperature and added aeration.
Malachite green treatment

Malachite green must be accurately dosed since it is a powerful chemical that will kill you fish if you overdo it. Some species are less tolerant to malachite green than others and it is therefore a good idea to research your species to find out how much malachite green they can handle. Many manufacturers recommend one drop of their product for each gallon of water in the aquarium to treat White Spot Disease, but a lot of producers sell really concentrated malachite green where one drop/gallon will not be safe to use on sensitive fish species.
A dose of 0.05 milligrams malachite green per liter water is generally considered safe when used for three successive treatments (one every other day) but calculating it can be a bit tricky since different bottles contain different concentrations of malachite green. Look for the concentration listed on the bottle of the medication. It will normally be in percent, so you need to convert it into milligrams per milliliter. 1 percent equals 1 gram per 100 milliliters of water. A 0.5% malachite green solution will for instance contain 5 mg/milliliter. The recommended dose written on the bottle is often 1 drop per gallon (in the U.S.), and since 1 milliliter is about 15 drops, such a dose will create a concentration much higher than 0.05 milligrams per liter. This is why many aquarists have such bad experiences from malachite green; if you follow the dose recommended by the manufacturer you will often overdose and harm sensitive species. If you purchase a 0,75% malachite green solution, add no more than 4 drops per 10 gallons of water.
Marine salt treatment

The Ich parasite does no like salt and using aquarium or marine salt is therefore a good way of getting rid of it, provided of course that you keep fish species that can tolerate the increased salinity. The high salinity should be maintained for two weeks to be sure that all parasites are really gone. Bringing the salinity up to 5 ppt (parts per thousand) will kill nearly always kill the parasites, but may be too strong for salt intolerant fish. If you keep catfish or equally sensitive species, bring the salinity no higher than 2 ppt and hope for the best.
Temperature and aeration

The use of malachite green or salt is often combined with an increased water temperature when combating White Spot Disease, sine this speeds up the life cycle of the parasite. If you decide to boost up the temperature you should ideally also provide additional aeration since cool water holds oxygen better than warmer water. The increased water temperature will simultaneously increase the metabolism of your fish, which in turn increases their need for oxygen. Since Ich parasites frequently attached themselves to the gills of fish and destroys them, it is easy to understand that an increased water temperature can be very difficult for the diseased fish to handle. Adding additional aeration and keeping the oxygen levels really high will aid them in their struggle.

[joz]

Diseases




ALL ABOUT ICH


http://badmanstropicalfish.com/meds/pleco_ich.jpg
Pleco with Ich
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/meds/pleco_ich1.jpg
close-up of pleco





Common name: White spot disease, "Ick", Ich


Scientific name: Ichthyopthirius multifilis
Ich is a ciliated protozoan parasite that infests freshwater tropical fish, goldfish, koi, and other gamefish species. Ich is a relatively large protozoan, up to one mm in diameter. Ich infestations can wipe out an entire tank of fish or pond if left untreated.
Symptoms


The most common symptom is the appearance of white spots on the fish. The spots can be seen on fins, the body, and eyes of the fish. Infested fish may not immediately show the characteristic white spots. Ich infests the gills, feeding on cells and fluids. Gill tissue suffers extensive damage, leading to suffocation of the fish. Ich also infests the body and fins and can lead to secondary bacterial and fungal infections. In the early stages of infection fish may be seen scratching on ornaments, rocks, or gravel. In the later stages fish are often seen hanging near power filter outlets, pumping their gills, in an attempt to get oxygen. Some fish may sit of the bottom of the aquarium or pond. Infested fish often will not eat.
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/meds/ichfin.jpg

Typical "White spot" appearance on fins


Ich parasites burrow just under the skin of fish, causing the characteristic "white spot" or trophont stage. At maturity, the adult parasite, called a tomont, detaches from the fish and swims freely for about six hours. The trophozite eventually settles to the bottom of the aquarium. The parasite then secretes a protective membrane. The "cyst" now undergoes many divisions, producing 1,000 or more offspring, called theronts. When the cyst breaks open, up to 1000 theronts emerge in search of a fish host. Theronts invade their fish host by burrowing into the skin with their cilia and digestive enzymes. The tomites feed on fish cells and tissue fluids until mature, starting the cycle over again. Tomites especially devastating to delicate gill tissue. The gills are destroyed by the destructive feeding action of the parasites, causing the fish to suffocate.
Considering that each trophozite releases about 1000 infective theronts, it is easy to see how fish can quickly succumb to an Ich outbreak. Water temperature controls the speed of the Ich life cycle. At 21° -24° C (70° -75° F) it takes about three days for a complete cycle.

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/meds/ichcycle.jpg

Treatment
Ich parasites can only be killed when they are in the free-swimming theront stage. Medications do not kill the parasites attached to the fish (white spot) or when the parasites are encysted in the gravel. Disappearance of the white spots simply means that the parasites have advanced to the cyst stage. In a few hours or days, depending on water temperature, thousands of infective theronts will burst out in search of a fish host. It is precisely at this point that the medication does its job. Since not all the Ich parasites "hatch out" at the same time, it is necessary to treat the aquarium or pond for several days to insure control. When one fish has ick, all fish in the aquarium or pond will be infected. All fish must be treated. Ich parasites are easily transferred to other aquaria or ponds by nets, hands, boots, etc. Quarantine the infested fish. Do not add or remove fish from the infested aquarium or pond. Begin treatment immediately.

[miko]

Excellent reading Joz! I guess what I originally did wrong was to leave the main tank at a low temperature. So when I treated a fish in another tank and got him well I added him back to a sick tank!! Beyond that I removed the infected fish which was wrong as the main tank was probably already infected.

I should now probably treat the main tank with some salt just to be sure.

I wonder if the plants will survive the salt?:confused: