White spot / fin Rot/ Ich

[_PhanToM_]

Hi Guys,

I have a huge problem, started 2 weeks ago when I brought 4 discus and added them to my already green watered tank.

I noticed some fishes started getting white spots, some has fin rots, so I started treating the tank with Primafix and Melafix last week. Eventually the fishes started to hid in the back for the last 2 days, today I saw 2 of my large discuss (7-8cm) with rotting fins and a hugh patch of white fungus.

What else can I do now? and how much time have I got to do this?

The fish that is most affected is my gf's favourite... Can someone give me some tips?
I dont have a spare tank that will fit them...

[joz]

When you say green watered what do you mean??

With discus I would suggest not going to chemicals first.
Discus do not like swimming in a cocktail of chemicals,with them water quality is everything.

Only treat them when absoloutly necessary and when you what your treating for.No point in putting them under more stress with mis diagnosis.

Unfortunately most people tend treat everything as a desease.
First thing should be water quality,so start doing some water changes with the best quality water you can get.
I used to use carbon filtered water, then do water changes with that.
Make sure there is no rotting debris/food in the tank,your filters should be also quite clean.
Temp should be betwen 28-30 deg C.
Fin rot is generally due to malnutrition and poor water quality with discus.
So fix the water ASAP while feeding them live food.Get hold of live brine shrimp and live blackworms and feed them that stuff once a day to get them eating to capacity.
Discus find it hard to resist live food even when sick.Frozen food won't cut it.

I really doubt that you have white spot,discus tanks should never get cool enough for white spot to occur.
If it has its your first big mistake.

To me it sounds as if you have a parasite issue.

Again fix the water and start treating with salt first.
Then later find a tablet medication called Paracide (active ingredient is Praziquantel),one of the better med's for discus parasites

[_PhanToM_]

Hi Joz,
Thanks for the reply.
By Green water I meant an outburst of algae, it’s been green for about a month now. I’ve tried the no light method, less feed, water changes of 25-30%, nothing has worked.
The fishes looks like it’s rotting away from fins and parts of the body, It is a white mucus looking thing on the skin, will try to get a pic of them if I can.

The water temperature had been around 25-27, I've increased it to 30 for now.

Goanna get some Multi cure as I heard the Malachite green and formalin (http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm) can help with the cure.

[joz]

Does the fish look anything like the dark one?

http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/images/DiscusPlague/DiscusPlague_600px.jpg


It could be discus plague..

http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Articles/TonyGriffitts/discus_plague.htm

[_PhanToM_]

Hi Guys,

I have attached the image for your viewing. I don't think it is the discus plague. I have started adding Multi Fix which contains Malachite Green, Methylene Blue and Acriflavine at the dosage of 5ml per 20L. This was advised by the LFS.

I have also checked the ammonia level is 0. Ph is 6.2, which I have started to increase.

I hope my gf is not going to be sad...

[joz]

Good luck Phantom,but honestly I have never had much luck with any of the multi cure type meds.
They are very non specific type of meds.I feel that the LFS is really just guessing.

There used to be a capsule med which turned your water a blue/yellow that would cure it (called FURAN 2) but I believe it is not available anymore .The stuff really worked.

Active ingredients are Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone.


The next best thing was a med containing a Formaline/malachite combo used in conjuction with salt,this helped a little but was not a complete cure.

What makes you think its not discus plague??

It really looks like it to me unfortunately.

Also keep an eye out woth what happens to the fish at your LFS.

I'm curious about their stock.


Imo you have discus plague which is a serious bacterial type of infection which is super contagious amongst discus.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=GykB84HU6LoC&pg=PA71&lpg=PA71&dq=Nitrofurazone+and+Furazolidone.&source=bl&ots=bj9nQslR1l&sig=_WR3eNsgcXeijxKaL7B9IwMDHlE&hl=en&ei=ZlBmSprNL5Hq6APQ_dUn&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10

[_PhanToM_]

Hi Joz,

I didnt think it was the plague because it didn't look like the pic you posted, but if you say it is then it must be.

so far I've lost 1, another is on the blink thou.

Thanks for the book, I will look through it tonight, would you know how long they have before it's too late?

I've gone to the LFS and checked their tank. Most of the discus there are starting to look like they have fin rot, a few are hidding away in the back and one has cloudy eyes.

I've expressed my concerns and they've promised me to replace any fish I'll loose, but that is not of help if I don't find a cure!

I took the worse looking one (the pic above) and placed him in a small 20l tank with lots of salt and lots of multi cure. He is starting to look a lil better... but I will go look for that cure you mentioned.

[joz]

Let me know how your fish are looking tonight.

Try to ring around the aquariums and see if Furan2 is available anywhere.
If you can get some.

Btw how big is the tank your fish are in??

[_PhanToM_]

I have a 330l tank, with a 5 compartment top filter.
2 contains ceremic noodles, 1 active carbon or white sponge (changes when medicating), 2 contains ammonia remover.
Whithin the tank there is a large piece of drift wood with some plants. (java moss, anubis and riccia.
Gravel and I've added a sponge filter a month ago.

In terms of fish:
8cm
2 red melons.
1 blue (lepord skin,'i think')
2 Yellow .....

5cm
1 blue diamond.
3 blue (lepord skin,'i think')
2 yellow...

10 rummy nose.
2 bristle nose.
1 zebra danios.

[joz]

Ok try finding some Furan quickly.

But if all fails.
I have some stuff at home but its out of date by quite a bit.
I'm not home till late tonight but if you could come across town sometime I'd give you enough to treat the tank.

[_PhanToM_]

Thanks Joz,
I am actually on St kilda rd, which is not far from you. If posisble I would like to take you up on your offer tonight.
I finish work at 7pm, what time is suitable for you?

I've contacted my LFS to see if they have any but the've not replied me yet.

[joz]

I probably won't be home till 11 tonight.
I rarely get home before that.
Not sure what else i can do to help ??

[_PhanToM_]

Thats a late night.
I won't be around by that time unfortunate for me.
You've help enough, at least now I know what I need.

[joz]

If you can't get any, I'll have some ready for you tomorrow at home.

[_PhanToM_]

Ok, I'm out of luck,
The LFS does not stock them so I looked online.. apparently it is illegal in Aus?

I'll keep searching for other alternatives 1st.

[joz]

Yep thought so.
But let me know if you want some for tomorrow,I'll leave some in my letter bnox if you want to swing past.
Or come past early and I'l give it to you.

[_PhanToM_]

Hi Joz,

Thanks for the offer, I will swing past tomorrow sometime if that's ok by you. I work from 10:30- 7pm so it might be easier to do a letter box drop.

I was also thinking about a water change tonight. What are your thoughts on changing the water with hot tap water. well not hot but warm tap water, would that be ok or are there too many chemicals in there from the hot water system? or should I just use some heaters to warm up the water..

[joz]

Depends on your hot water service.

But if you want to heat up some water thats kind of safer,use the microwave.

PM me your phone no and I'll SMS you my address.

[_PhanToM_]

Hi,

Picked up those meds already, I can't even begin to express my thanks to you. Hopefully this will save them.

Last night I went and dosed one of the sick fish with Potasium Permanganate to help with all the mucus.

Tonight I will do 20% water change then add in the meds by 1captule per 38l.

Will keep you posted.

[joz]

Good luck with it.
I'd say that you would loose all your fish with this desease.
But at the same time I must remind you that the meds are out of date.
So could be a bit of Russian roulette.

I know the stuff works,I brought the same problem home from an aquarium years ago and was devastated.
With my fish room it cost me over a thousand $$ to treat.
But with hundreds of discus at the time it was a no brainer.

It also works on treating that sheet algea that covers everything,but alas bit rough on plants.

[_PhanToM_]

Hi,

I've just added in the meds let's hope it works,
Here is a pic of a strong fish that's progressively getting worse.

This looks more like a fungus is growing on him thou. semi cotton looking.
his fins are all gone, Last night I saw a tiny little red dot on a fin and today half the fin is missing and a red line around the rotting area.


This pic is the right way up, he has been head down for a day now.....

[joz]

Good luck I hope it works they way it should.

Goes to show how quickly a strong healthy fish can go down hill so fast.
With some luck the next 24/48 hours should show some improvement.

[_PhanToM_]

He just past away... the rest are hiding the back....... I dont have the heart to tell my gf yet....

[_PhanToM_]

so here is the weird thing. On the water surface I can see little tiny bugs that jumps around. I was just watching one closely when it landed on the glass, they have little tiny legs and white/cream in color.

Could they be the thing that is eating away at the fish? (or am I going insane here)

Finally I thought I had a good grasp on discus keeping and now all this is happening i feel like an absolute failure.

[joz]

Unfortutately shit like this happens with discus sometimes.Believe me it's all happened to me at one time or another.

[joz]

Phantom, any updates ??

I hope things are on the improve and it wasn't to late to save the rest of the tank.

[_PhanToM_]

Hi Joz,
Sorry for the late reply, had a busy weekend.
You were right; our fishes are getting a lot better. There are still some with minor fungus growth on their fins but at least it’s stoped rotting. J Would it be wise to add in some fungus meds?
They are all healthier and eating well now, which is a good sign. I am being very careful with them now. Will do a 25% water change to clear out the water on Thursday.

Thanks

[joz]

If its actually fungus with some of those fuzzy growths I would do a fungus cure after a small water change.

But glad to hear that the fish are on the improve.
Pity we didn't get onto it a bit sooner for you.

[_PhanToM_]

It's all good, I am glad andthankful to you that it was only 3 and not the entire tank!!
Will put in some fungus cure after the 7 day period for this med. Correct me if I am wrong but I feel that mixing meds in a fish tank can create extra stress to the fish? if that is not the case I will add some in as soon as I get home.

[joz]

I'd prefer not to add any extra meds unless there is no choice.
Best thing to do is treat one thing at a time starting with the most serious problem.

[_PhanToM_]

yeah thats what I thought.
I have some fungus remover that I used to add in the tank when breeding Angels. will use that after the water change.

What kind of fishes do you have now? I know you have some guppies, are you breeding any other types?

[joz]

These days I only have my main communty tank.
Its an 8' in my lounge.Its a planted tank with mainly discus.
But not doing any breeding at the moment even though I have had the odd pair raise a few young discus in the tank.
I may try my hand at some breeding again in the future,we'll see?

[_PhanToM_]

oh cool, well when you do let me know. I will buy some baby discus from you, thats if they are for sale. :;p

[joz]

No probs.

How are the rest of the fish doing?
Still improving?

[_PhanToM_]

Hi,

Just to give you an update. The tank is looking really good now. The meds might have helped cleared up the algae boom (green water) as well.

It is still green looking but i think it is green from the meds. well at least it is clear and i can see the wall at the back of the tank. :P

Fishes are looking good, there are some fin damage that will not heal tho that can't be helped. I am considering myself lucky to have the fishes alive!!
Apart from that, 2 are still not eating but the others are really active.

Thinking of getting some live brine shrimps to help with their loss of appetite.
I will be doing a water change tonight.

[joz]

Live brine should help getting them feeding.
Fingers crossed.

[_PhanToM_]

yeah, I hope so, I've placed the 2 simi sick on in a smaller tank for now. with some flagly and some salt hoping that will help them.

[_PhanToM_]

Hi again,

I think I am just not suited for Discus Keeping!!!

Now that their bodies and fins have healed. There are 2 that's still not eating, one is on the blink of death, I would be supprised to see him alive tonight.
The other is not eating, skinny, (bony) and has a string of clear faeces. I am guessing it is Heximeta, and I have some Flagly to take care of this but just wanted to check if it is ok to mix the meds you've given me with Flagly.

I've done 2, 25% water changes over the last 2 weeks but there is still traces of the meds in the tank. (judging by water color) Currently using active carbon to remove he remaining meds but i got a feeling it's not effective.

Brought heaps of live brine shrimps for them to chase around, the sick one is eating but not as much as the rest and is only eating those that are near him, (He is hiding under a drift wood.) but when the lights are off he will come out for a short while then hide away again.

The characteristics is ery similar to a depressed person. This is going to sound stupid.. but is he depressed from loosing some of his mates???

Oh Joz, My gf would like to thank you for all your help as well.

[joz]

Hi Phantom,don't give up just yet.

Ok its time to remove the carbon and treat with the Flagyl.
I believe the dose rate is one 100mg tablet/40litres of water.

Don't fuss that the water may still be a little colored still,its time for the next treatment.
Also remember with Flagyl to retreat in 7 days.

Thanks Phantom I'm just trying to help.
I know that it can be mighty discouraging when this stuff happens.Believe me its not always like what has just happened to you.

[_PhanToM_]

Hi Joz,

Just thought you might want an update on my situation.

The color has cleared out and it would seem all problem are gone, however, I only have 1, just 1 discus left.

I've hold off adding any new life to the tank for a while now a discus by himself can be rather depressing so 2 weeks ago i added 2 more discus and a whole heap of plants, 4 bristle nose.

This week end I will be getting some more Discus to add in as well.

I just hope I nothing happens.

I now am a true believer in water changes, I do a %10 change every Saturday, 10% out, 10% in at room temperature.