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View Full Version : Hi, and help with fish dying. Is it us or them?



Russell
17th December 2011, 03:07 PM
Hi All,

My name's Russell, from the Darling Downs, Qld. My son has had one of those useless 8l tanks for a while now, but has managed to keep a Pleco and one Neon alive. I never expected it to do well, but I thought the could of guppies we had in there would live. We've tried several fish over the last two years, with not much success on keeping them alive. But given the small volume of water these tanks hold, I knew it'd be tough.

Time passes, the Pleco and the Neon are still going strong, and my son expressed interest in breeding fish. So after much discussion and investigation, we purchased a 200L tank with all the gear (3 heaters, large cartridge filter + 2 in tank filters, gravel, and an airstone & pump). We set it all up and have been doing fishless cycling with a couple of raw prawns for 3 weeks.

We're on tank water, so it's pretty fish friendly straight from the tap. I put in some old biobooster we got when we first got the small tanks (not realising it's not that useful anyway) as I figured it couldn't hurt. We put in two plants when setting it up as I figured they might help the bacteria grow. It took 2 weeks for the ammonia to drop first off, and then only another 2 days for the nitrites to drop. Seems a bit strange the second half of the cycle was so quick, but we checked again over the next 2 days and everything seemed good. The pH did drop to 6.6, but I corrected that before the last test. Nitrates also were only at about 30ppm too, which also seemed a little strange.

So I figured we'd put some fish in and see how it goes. Bought 4 Danio's, let them swim for 2 days and they seemed fine. So, not wanting to run it without many fish for too long, we went yesterday and bought 9 guppies and 8 neons, and another plant, and added to the tank.

Now to the crux of the problem. Less than 24 hours later, two of the guppies have died already. I have pictures for post-mortem purposes if anyone thinks that may help. We just did a full test sweep. Temp is 24.5 C, pH is 7 - 7.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate around 80ppm!!! I've done a quick 15% water change, as I don't want the temp to bounce too much.

How the Nitrate jumped so much so quickly I'm not sure. All I can think is I muffed the first test by not shaking the solution enough, but even so, would 24 hours at that concentration kill the guppies?

My other concern is, we only have one pet shop within 100km to shop at. We've lost numerous fish from them within 12 - 24 hours. Could they possibly be just poor quality fish in the first place?

Any thoughts would be appreciated, as this is my son's Christmas present, and I hate to see him disappointed. I was eventually wanting to add some Ram Cichlids for him to try breeding too, even though their pH requirements are a little lower than the guppies, once he's comfortable looking after the guppies, but this isn't a good start.

Thanks. Russell.

Stew_822
18th December 2011, 02:21 PM
Hi there.

Your 8L tank is, as you know, too small for practically any fish. If anything would fit, a betta MIGHT, but I seriously wouldn't. The pleco is going to grow way too big. The neon needs friends. You're being cruel to innocent animals. Please find them another,, bigger tank and get the neon some friends. I'd go for a ten gallon, min, but for a pleco 20 gallons plus is much better.

I don't know how the nitrates could get that high in such a short time but the max is about 40ppm, I think, so a 50% is needed and a 50% the next day. You've also added far too many fish at once, it's better to add them slowly. The resulting ammonia spike may have been the cause, but I don't know, I'm no expert.

They could be kept in bad conditions in the shop, but you might also be acclimatising them too fast or are just trying to add fish to an already overstocked tank.

Russell
18th December 2011, 02:36 PM
I don't know how the nitrates could get that high in such a short time but the max is about 40ppm, I think, so a 50% is needed and a 50% the next day. You've also added far too many fish at once, it's better to add them slowly. The resulting ammonia spike may have been the cause, but I don't know, I'm no expert.

They could be kept in bad conditions in the shop, but you might also be acclimatising them too fast or are just trying to add fish to an already overstocked tank.

Thanks for the feedback. You may have missed that we did fishless cycling. The nitrate cycle was pumped to 5ppm until the bacteria were processing that much every day, so 17 small fish is not going to be any problem with ammonia or nitrites. I do think I did the first nitrate test incorrectly, which gave me the false believe it hadn't been high, when it actually was. A test again yesterday showed the all levels normal except Nitrates, at about 40ppm after the first water change, and we have done another 10% change, but haven't retested again yet.

The number of fish we have should also comfortably be about half of the tank's capacity, so overstocking isn't an issue. We followed the standard acclimatising procedure - 20 minutes floating, another 20 minutes with half tankwater added, then putting them in. Not sure what else to consider.

Stew_822
19th December 2011, 08:22 AM
All right, you got me :)

I don't know what could be wrong. Perhaps they are just "bad quality" fish. If I were you though, I'd do ten mins floating, add a quarter of the bag's capacity of water to the bag, then wait ten mins, do the same, wait another ten mins then do the same. Then you can release them. But your way shouldn't have caused death with guppys; they're pretty hardy.

I still you think you should reconsider your 8L. I noticed you didn't respond to my first comment about it and I'd like to hear your views on it.

Russell
19th December 2011, 10:28 AM
Sorry I wasn't avoiding the question, I was just confused what you meant. But now I see I never stated it in my original post, but the Pleco an Tetra will be moving to the new tank as soon as we're sure the water is suitable.

Russell.

Stew_822
20th December 2011, 08:07 AM
All right, cool. Good luck and I hope you don't lose any more fish :)

jamesmild
24th December 2011, 07:21 PM
8l tank i would recommend just a fighting fish they can live in the smallest tank and will be better looking then just the one placo n neon

Stew_822
26th December 2011, 08:56 AM
I wouldn't, that's unfair. Just because a fighting fish can survive in such a small tank doesn't mean it likes being there. 20 litres min, or preferably 40L, I reckon. With plants to make it a bit more interesting for him/her, & maybe a BN or snail or something to keep him company - although it';s probably not a good idea XD

Russell
26th December 2011, 10:43 AM
The 8l tank is being decommissioned, or at best may be a brine shrimp breeder.

We're down to about 4 guppies from the original 9 now. All the Neons and Danios are still fine. Water changes are continuing.

Stew_822
26th December 2011, 10:12 PM
Sorry to hear that :/

How's the water quality?

Russell
27th December 2011, 11:43 PM
Sorry to hear that :/

How's the water quality?

With Christmas activities, we've missed checking for a few days, and the Nitrates have shot up again! PH has dropped also to about 6.6-6.8, which the guppies wouldn't like. Ammoania and nitrites are both zero at least. Nitrate reading though says it's 110ppm!!! That's the max reading it does.

We did a 25% water change, and will do another tomorrow and the next day, and see what it says then.

Stew_822
28th December 2011, 08:21 AM
The guppys can tolerate a lot of different water conditions; it's just the changes they don't like. I've read that they do like alkaline water though.

Perhaps two 25% a day would be better? Or even better, two 50%? That is an awfully high reading and I have done 2x80% changes in one day on my tank with no ill effects (although I wouldn't do that if you could avoid it) I don't know why your rating would be so high. Have you checked your town water to see if there's any nitrates in there? Perhaps you'll have to use RO water with GH crystals.

Russell
28th December 2011, 08:40 AM
The guppys can tolerate a lot of different water conditions; it's just the changes they don't like. I've read that they do like alkaline water though.

Perhaps two 25% a day would be better? Or even better, two 50%? That is an awfully high reading and I have done 2x80% changes in one day on my tank with no ill effects (although I wouldn't do that if you could avoid it) I don't know why your rating would be so high. Have you checked your town water to see if there's any nitrates in there? Perhaps you'll have to use RO water with GH crystals.

Yeah you might be right, some bigger changes are probably in order until we get this under control. We are on tank rainwater, so what we have is what comes out of the sky.

Stew_822
29th December 2011, 08:17 AM
all righty, we have rainwater too :)

According to the fish shop and other guys on the internet, we should still add those cystals b/c they add the GH which is important for the fish?