Plants And Under Gravel Filters

[wombat1100]

Hi peoples, I was just reading a thread in another section of this forum and it was suggested that plants don't like being planted directly in the substrate if you are running an under gravel filter. Now i have 2 planted tanks and only one of them has an under gravel filter, the one without the filter the plants are flourishing, the one with the under gravel filter the plants are definitely not doing as well. Maybe this is the problem? Have any other people had this experience? any comments will be appreciated
Dazz

[sharkybubba]

well that would certainly make sense as to why i always have heaps of problems with my tank because i have a UG filter as well....i end up growing the plants in my fighters tank and when they are bigger and healthier i replant them in my tropical but they never do as well once replanted..

[volenti]

At first sight it makes sense that plants rooted above an UGF could become more nutrient starved then ones rooted just in gravel, but that is only if the plants are relying on root feeding for the majority of their nutrient uptake.

I have one planted tank that is essentially bare bottom (just a thin layer of gravel to cover the ugly glass) all the plants in there are attached to driftwood and their "aerial" roots draw nutrients (NPK/trace daily, it's a high tech tank) directly from the water column.

I see no reason why these same plants would suffer just by being planted above an UGF, indeed if there was an issue how do hydroponic plants survive?, it's essentially the same setup.

I'm tempted to set up a high tech tank with the sole filter being an UGF, and using heavy root feeding plants, just to prove that it isn't the issue everyone thinks it is.

[joz]

At first sight it makes sense that plants rooted above an UGF could become more nutrient starved then ones rooted just in gravel, but that is only if the plants are relying on root feeding for the majority of their nutrient uptake.

I have one planted tank that is essentially bare bottom (just a thin layer of gravel to cover the ugly glass) all the plants in there are attached to driftwood and their "aerial" roots draw nutrients (NPK/trace daily, it's a high tech tank) directly from the water column.

I see no reason why these same plants would suffer just by being planted above an UGF, indeed if there was an issue how do hydroponic plants survive?, it's essentially the same setup.

I'm tempted to set up a high tech tank with the sole filter being an UGF, and using heavy root feeding plants, just to prove that it isn't the issue everyone thinks it is.[/b]



I don't claim to be an expert.But it does seem to me that with hydro plants the liquid to the roots may be higher(much) in nutients.?

[volenti]

I don't claim to be an expert.But it does seem to me that with hydro plants the liquid to the roots may be higher(much) in nutients.?[/b]

Oh indeed, the nutrient concentration in hydroponics is at least 10x higher than what we use, it's no coincidence that hydroponic plants are also exposed to a 10X higher CO2 concentration than that we typically use as well.

I have decided now to set up a 2' planted tank (high tech) with a full UGF, using exclusively "root feeding" plants, swords, val, ect.

We'll see how it goes.

[wombat1100]

cant wait to see the results of your tests, will be interesting as there seems to be a definite argument in regard to this .

[sharkybubba]

I have decided now to set up a 2' planted tank (high tech) with a full UGF, using exclusively "root feeding" plants, swords, val, ect.[/b]


Im really interested to see what happens too, looking forward to it, especially the sword-never have any luck with them! haha

[volenti]

Yea, the sword isn't really ideal for a little 2' tank, with it set up as a high tech tank it'll either melt (assuming UGF's are as evil as they say) or the damn thing will simply grow out of the tank ( I have a 6' tank 18'' high that had a sword breaking the surface with half a dozen leaves, and that's still no where near full size) With the filter plate and a nice think layer of gravel there's only ~20cm of water depth, the sword will be breaking the surface by end of Jan.

I probably should put some crypts in there too since they can be difficult but I have some thriving simply poked into holes in driftwood (no substrate at all) so I don't know how much that would prove.

[joz]

Yep,I have swords growing out of my 30" (750mm) high tank aswell

[finsnthings]

This experiment would be interesting. I too have seen both sides of the UGF argument. I believe there are just too many variables to simply state one way or the other. Types of plants and changes in the light/water condition even with tanks side by side?

I started an experiment but haven't really focused on it much as its also been my first big tank. (350L~100gal) With that plenty of other things to get a handle on. Almost 3months in now.

I have both canister and UGF for three reasons,
1) more filtration the better ;)
2) if the power goes down for an extended time (rare I know), ie no canister I can run the UGF via air using a 12v system. However most of the time its driven by powerheads.
3) this UGF debate. I will turn it off and see if it changes anything.

I also placed 6cm of gravel up one end and only 3 the other.
The UGF is also a foot short. so the 3cm end is above no UGF at all.
I then planted the same plant in both ends.
I planted a couple of different types.

However I realise that even this is not fair. Both ends are not perfectly similar. This was first up as a display tank secondly an experiment and I have thoughts now that certain plants may grow together better than others. Some may pinch the local nutrients, starving a plant down this end for ex.

I guess what Im getting at is to really be able to say, yay or nay, would require a very tightly constrained experiment.

Remember Im a beginner and I was not going to head down the high tech tank road, with special lights and such, just a bloke who wanted a tank with some fish and some plants. I therefore bow to the experience of those who have planted many. I wish in hindsight I had kept a diary specifically on the plants.

As Im new to this forum I will also post about a sword Im having trouble with.

As for results, this post has encouraged me to sit down and write some up.