Kribensis Questions

[hotwinter]

My partner and I have two Kribensis in our tropical tank, male and female. Now the female is ready for mateing, her belly is extreamly swolen and red. But I have no idea about how they mate, about their behaviour or anything.

The male has been following her abound like a bad smell but I know they are schooling fish so this could just be natural behaviour. All the other male fish in the tank are very alert and keep displaying themselves and when they go near our little girl, lets just say her partner is picking fights with fish three times his size.

They also are spending alot of time in a little cave underneath out treasure chest. But this evening she has been displaying some extreamly strange behaviour and I'm a little concerned. She will be perfectly still one minute then shake as if she's having a fight then go back to being still, but this is only in the little cave, not when she's swiming around the rest of the tank.

Can anyone share some light on the situation for me?

[hotwinter]

Nobody knows anything about them? :(

[Woodsy]

Hey there,
As far as I'm aware, Kribs aren't schooling fish, and do best off in trio's as do most of your other dwarf cichlids. They are a west african fish, and as such should be kept in soft, slightly acidic water. In order to get them to spawn you will require a suitable cave (as you have stated you have), preferably at one end of the tank (as they tend to push thier tankmates back), and feed them a variety of frozen and live foods.
This is just a general guide, as many different people have got them to spawn in many different ways, however, I always like to go with the most natural way I can possibly afford to replicate. Have a read about them, and I'm sure you'll be able to find out some more interesting facts ;)

[hotwinter]

I only have the two, male and female, I did some more reading and no they're not schooling, they just seek company of a male or female of their own kind.

The little cave they seem interested in right at the left end of the tank, and my female is still spending most of her time in there.

I think breeding time is over though, her belly has gone down in size a little and has started to loose that magnificant red glow and just back to an overall dull washout :(

But all the males in the tank seem to think it's pick on the girl week. They won't leave her alone all of a sudden, beating her up and nipping at her. So far they haven't managed to hurt her, but I'm getting conserned, I think it's time to whip out my other tank and give her and her partner a new neighbourhood.

Still can't find much helpful infomation about them. They don't seem to be very popular.

[wombat1100]

Not sure about this, but maybe you should trade one of the males for another female at your LFS?
maybe its some sort of male courting fight between the 2 males?
just a thought
Dazz

[hotwinter]

You really think a male chiclid would be trying to court female kribensis?

[wombat1100]

[quote=hotwinter;3417]I only have the two, male and female, /quote]
Sorry I miss read you! I thought u meant u had 2 males and one female!
If the male thats causing the trouble is a cichlid , maybe the Krib is in his cave and hes trying to get her out of it? if this is the case, more rock work will give the cichlids more caves.

[Woodsy]

Google: Pelvicachromis pulcher, there's plenty of info out there ;)

[hotwinter]

No, it's not a teritorial thing, I think he's just the bully. Even though he's not in charge. I tried putting a catfish breeding cave in there for them, which they loved, but our big guy kept trying to swim in it and getting stuck.

Found some good info about them, but still nothin that really helps, just the same old facts as normal.

[Woodsy]

What is it exactly, that you would like to know about them then? I can give you a run-down on the kind of biotope you would find them in, or if it's a specific question about their behavior I can ask a few of the blokes I know who have bred them successfully.

[hotwinter]

Well they're just showing really strange behaviour.

One minute the male loves the female, the next he hates her.
Then one minute our chiclids are protecting the female then beating her up.

Not to mention they won't mate! She's fat, she's red, the fin on her belly (can't remember what it's called, I know she displays it when it's baby making time), they're being fed right, temperature is good, all water levels are good, they have a cave all picked out...but they just won't mate!!!!

[Woodsy]

If you're that keen on trying to get them to spawn, my advice would be to get them a tank of their own, or with a few dither fish.
a) They won't be stressed by other cichlid tankmates
b) They're less likely to lose their fry to predation

It's not hard or expensive to set up a tank specifically for this purpose for kribs, something as small as 18inches is fine for the parents, and then you can move the fry into a grow-out tank. This is all assuming that you have the express purpose of breeding them, otherwise I'd say most of your problems are due to their current tankmates and/or poor bloodlines.
Best of luck with it though ;)

[joz]

I would try a quiet and personal space for them away from intruders.
They may be eating the eggs themselves rather than surrendering them to other fish.

Best bet is them by them selves in an appropriate tank with ideal water conditions and habitat and keep them well fed with live food to keep them in condition.

[hotwinter]

Well we set a little tank up for them last night and we're letting it do it's cycle before we move them over.

I ran into a problem today, we tried to buy those live wormy things they like and we were informed that you can't buy them around where we live, that you have to hatch them and stuff yourself!

So I had a look at the kits with eggs and they're just way out of our price range. Is live food absolutely essential?

[Wutangxxx]

A pair of Kribs should be sufficient since a 'trio' usually results in fights. Once they form a pair - that is all that is needed for spawning.

Im not sure about feeding them, but I had read in an article that wild kribs mainly feed on algae, so I would assume some vegies or greens would be good.
Live food isnt absolutely essential but a good addition once in a while

In addition - you can try raising some mosquito wrigglers and feed them - in the place where I am -theres plentiful of mossies going around, so just give them water, and in no time, there be lots of wrigglers for feeding.

However, you have to be careful, since their 'dirty' so feed sparingly like all live foods.
I think on another site, there is someone in QLD selling microworm, vinegar eel cultures.

A tank for themselves with dither fish (make sure their fast ones like tetras, barbs or danios, white clouds would be best). I had guppies in there, they took to them like live food - they were colorless guppies so I was ok with it :P. When the kribs or cichlids get pissed, they will take they anger out on the dither fish, but since their much faster, the cichlid would soon subside (hopefully)

In addition, try renovating the tank - like placing caves and ornaments in different places. And try giving them different type and see what they like
Try giving them a upturned terrocota pot with a slit - I think that is usually good

Cheers

[hotwinter]

Thanks heaps for that. Their tank is well into the cycle now so won't be long till we move them over.

Hehe yeah the Kribensis are constantly picking at our snail, he spends most of his days hiding in his shell, only coming out when I'm either at the tank or all the other fish are asleep.

What is the other site? I'm eager to find something live to feed them.

[Leone]

hotwinter - I would be really keen on hearing the outcome of your breeding, I also got 2 Kribs the other day, one male and one female. They are still only about 4cm long, so probably a while before they start to breed. I am keen on seeing if I can breed them tho, I have fallen in love with them, they are so kewl

[hotwinter]

I know they're absolutely awsome little things. I love my little girl, she's really shy but protects her teritory like a little warrior.

We transfered them over to the breeding tank last night and they've finally started coming out of the corner in the last hour or so.

I'm hoping that now they're on their own they'll start with the baby making. I'll definatly let you know on their process.

[wombat1100]

Well done, how about keeping a photo log and sharing it with us all?
I for one would love to see the pics.
Dazz

[Leone]

me too - I would love pics and a regular update on how they are going.

I, hopefully am getting my new smaller tank tomorrow and will tranfer my Kribs into it to do some baby making (will keep you all updated)

cheers
Leone

[aquafarian]

Often you won't even see the babies until they have hatched and grown up a little while hiding from you in the mother's mouth. A good sign that the mother has a mouthful is if she stops eating.

[hotwinter]

Leone, i look forward to seeing you pics! I finally found my camera so I'll charge it and post up some pics.

And yeah, she's not eating atm, unfortunetly not due to having a mouth full of fry, but she's extreamly stressed. Her partner is beating her up in the new tank, a few more days and he'll get over the terratory thing.

They're doing fairly well, will keep you posted.

[Leone]

And yeah, she's not eating atm, unfortunetly not due to having a mouth full of fry, but she's extreamly stressed. Her partner is beating her up in the new tank, a few more days and he'll get over the terratory thing.

They're doing fairly well, will keep you posted.


Do you have any other fish in the tank?? Dither fish are good to put in the tank with the Kribs, fast little fish that will keep the male occupied and leave the female alone. Some small fast tetras or such the like usually work well as dither fish.

[hotwinter]

We did have the Kribensis in with a cichlid, peacock, silver sharks and a bristle nose, but in the breeding tank it's just the two of them, the cichlid was giving them too much trouble, disturbing there little nest.

I'll keep the tetras in mind though for when I move them back into a big tank with other fish

[Woodsy]

If you want to stick to the West African theme, you may want to try Congo Tetras, or even Pantodons (Pantodon buchholzi) <--- Absolutely fascinating fish, one of my long-time favourites.

[hotwinter]

I'm not wanting to stick to any particular type, I go mainly on looks, the ones I think are funky, and if they have series attitude? THEY'RE IN!

Went by an Aquarium today and they had some of the coolest little fish i've seen, long straight, black, with this HUGE bottom jaw, they were quiet fascinating

[Woodsy]

Halfbeaks (Dermogenys)? Rad little fish, but you'll have to bump your hardness up if you want to keep them, at least to 180ppm. Good jumpers too :p

[hotwinter]

Nah that's not them...theyre heads are bigger, and their jaws are wide, not long, like a really strong jaw...one that a wood chopped would have hehe

[Woodsy]

Panchax? I really want to know now! hahaha

[hotwinter]

Nope, not that one either. The head is alot wider, little triangular.

[hotwinter]

THEY HAVE EGGS!!!!! THEY HAVE EGGS!!!!

Johnny called me over to their tank frantically today with the torch, and there they all were! On stuck on the inside of the breeding cave with the two protective parents refusing to uncover the opening so we could have a good look.

I'm fairly sure they hatch in roughly two days...so soon we will have around 100 little babies swarming around the tank. We are going to have to completely redesign our filtering system for their tank or else the little bubbas could get sucked through the pipes and end up a yummy snack for the cichlid and gourami!

[wombat1100]

congrats, keep us informed and take pics if you can, oh , and dont count your chickens, oops i mean fishes before they hatch! :)

[hotwinter]

Hehe I'm not, I've read that it is quiet common for them to eat their first...batch :confused:...of eggs as it's more of a trial. I would happily take photos...but the cave is too dark and the water just reflects the flash :mad: But I'm determined to figure something out...just gonna leave it till after my Birthday tomorrow :D:D

[wombat1100]

well Happy birthday to you!
Dazz

[hotwinter]

Hehe thanks Dazz. I had an awsome day.

Tonight I saw the male Kribensis fanning (either the eggs or the newly hatched young, we're not too sure yet) just outside the cave opening. His bottom fins have never been so colourful, he looks really beautiful.

[wombat1100]

click click click, i have to take about a hundred shots to get one half decent pic!
keep trying I'm sure you will succeed

[Woodsy]

Hahaha, I know what you mean mate. That's why I went and got myself a photographer to do it for me :p

[hotwinter]

Our batch of eggs failed. I think they ate them cause they are nowhere to be seen. No babbies and the eggs have completely disapeared. I think they ate them. I've read they do that when they're either not ready or the envirnment is not prepared.

[wombat1100]

:( don't be discouraged, if its their first batch they might not have been ready for parenthood either! just simulate the correct conditions and they will try again, and be patient! :)

[joz]

Our batch of eggs failed. I think they ate them cause they are nowhere to be seen. No babbies and the eggs have completely disapeared. I think they ate them. I've read they do that when they're either not ready or the envirnment is not prepared.

They may have hidden the young elsewhere till they're free swimmimg?

Are they (parents) hanging about any area more than usual? if so the kids may be around there?

[hotwinter]

Well there is still a chance mumma is carrying them in her mouth, but we don't think so. We're pretty sure though that it was a failure. Even so, we're patient parents, we're hapy to wait till they're ready. We've already changed their temp and they're loving their baby brine shrimp. WE FOUND SOMEWHERE IN QUEENSLAND THAT SELLS LIVE BABY BRINE SHIMP!!!!!!!

[hotwinter]

OH MY GOD WE SPOKE TO SOON! We counted roughly 70. They are so teeny teeny teeny!

[wombat1100]

WOO HOO congrats!!!

[Leone]

congrats.. I am excited for you.

I still dont have anything that even remotely looks like mine are going to do anything yet.

I have lowered the water temp down to 24, it was on about 26.. so keep your fingers crossed for me now

[hotwinter]

*crosses fingers*

My partner keeps talking baby talk to their tank, and the bristlenoses too. It's quiet cute actually :)

Is there anything else I can feed them besides baby brine shrimp. I want them to fatten up as fast as possible, they need to be nice and strong for our move.

[firedragon92]

hey um not too sure what else you can feed them that will fatten them up faster than the brime shrimp, but i was wondering if after they mature will you be looking to sell them

[joz]

OH MY GOD WE SPOKE TO SOON! We counted roughly 70. They are so teeny teeny teeny!


hehe! told ya so..:)


You can add some liquidfry food to the tank.I used to use it with angels and some other small cichlids.But I added a few drops to a glass of tank water then sucked the stuff up into some airhose.Then would blow into into the area where the fry are congregating.
Also ask your LFS for frozen baby brine,it should be about aswell.

[Leone]

:(
I got home last night and my male was dead!!

The water was real warm (about 28), the thermostat on the heater was on about23, but I suspect it is faulty. I cooled it right down, and will keep a close eye on it...

now I need another male so my female has company..

[joz]

:(
I got home last night and my male was dead!!

The water was real warm (about 28), the thermostat on the heater was on about23, but I suspect it is faulty. I cooled it right down, and will keep a close eye on it...

now I need another male so my female has company..

Thats unusual,28 is not hot enough to kill the fish.
My tank is always between 28-30 not including those hot summer periods where it gets even hotter.

[wombat1100]

I would have to agree with Joz, i would be looking at possibly another cause for the males death, 28 isn't all that hot.
Dazz

[Woodsy]

Unless you have a high fish load, a 99.7&#37; CO2 diffuser, and no air pump. LOL, been there...

[Leone]

I would have to agree with Joz, i would be looking at possibly another cause for the males death, 28 isn't all that hot.
Dazz

Well, I checked my water, and it was fine (nitrites and amonia - 0, nitrates about 15).

The only thing different in the tank was that I got some more neon tetras. So in the 60L tank, I had 2 Kribs, and 12 neon tetras (I only had a couple of tetras before and they looked lonely). So it isnt as if I have over stocked the tank.

Ahh well, I will have to get another male Krib and keep on trying. I really want babies..

[hotwinter]

I agree aswell about the temperature. My tank gets up to around 29 on a hot day and they love the warm water. They get more active.

And yes I am certainly interested in selling them once they're mature. They are around 9mm now and are starting to show some colour, so hopefully I'll be able to get some photos instead of the light going straight through their little transparent bodies.

[hotwinter]

Oh and did I mention we finally found ONE store in Brisbane/Gold Coast that sells live baby brine shrimp. I've tried the frozen stuff, but it clogs up the filter and I have to clean it almost every day, and that's not good for my levels, specially with the babies being so sensitive

[joz]

Oh and did I mention we finally found ONE store in Brisbane/Gold Coast that sells live baby brine shrimp. I've tried the frozen stuff, but it clogs up the filter and I have to clean it almost every day, and that's not good for my levels, specially with the babies being so sensitive

The frozen stuff worked fine for me ,but I only ever used the tiniest amount at a time.:confused:

[wombat1100]

Yes its sounds like you need to feed a little less but more often so it all gets eaten B4 it gets to the filter. maybe turn the filter off for 10 min while they eat?
Dazz

[hotwinter]

yeah I'll certainly try that, cause I have all this frozen food and I wasn't sure on what to do with it lol.

[Leone]

how are those babies going?

I got a new male Krib yesterday, but so far he is staying hidden behind the sponge filter. the female is being a real bitch and chasing him and nipping him. hopefully he will stand up to her and do the deed...lol

[hotwinter]

Is he the same size or bigger? I'm sure he'll settle in over the next few days. But the babies are doing great, very slowly growing, starting to try and nibble at the flake the parents eat.

I blew my ankle over the weekend so I am staying at my parents till I'm healed enough to tackle the stairs at home. And my camera is at home with all my pictures of the babies :(

[Leone]

My male is about the same size as the female, maybe a tad smaller. He is starting to come out a bit now, but predominantly hides. I think maybe he is just shy.

hope your ankle is getting better - we want more pics of your babies..

[hotwinter]

Well Johnny will be heading through home tomorrow, so I'll get him to try and get a couple more snaps of them.

[hotwinter]

:( We only have one baby left...the parents ate them :( We've moved the remaining guy into the tank with the bristlenose babies and we're hoping that he pulls through.

We're setting up the parents tank in the hope they will breed again soon.

[Leone]

how is that baby Krib going??

[hotwinter]

It's doing well so far! He's been happily swimming around with the baby bristlenose. I'm sure it'd be lonely though :(

[Johnny]

Yeah the baby kribensis is happily moving around munching on flake. the baby bristlenose are growing at a rapid rate. I think over the past week they gained another 3mm, They are around 19mm long and the kribensis is around 14mm big now

Bristlenose outnumber the krib by 70 odd to 1 through :p

[wombat1100]

you will have to call him Nemo, he was the last of his family to survive!

[Leone]

wow.. the kids these days grow up way too fast, :)

[hotwinter]

I know, we have a new kitten as well, so we're parents all round at the moment lol

[hotwinter]

Well all our babies died. Nemo just disapeared one day. Not sure what happened to him because he was in with the bristlnose baby. Maybe he just fell off his perch and they had a good feed.

But our female also died :( Johnny found her in the tank very swallon and oozing from her chest. We thought she had been clogged up with the little pebbles that were in their tank, but then our guppie died aswell. We moved them all to a different tank and they're doing fine. The male isn't even fazed about not having his partner anymore.

But we are going to try again, once we find a store that sells female Kribensis that is. Everywhere near us only ever has males, and tiny ones at that.