breeding red forest jewels

[firedragon92]

i was just after some info on how red forest jewels breed
what conditions to provide them with
whether or not i should move all of the other fish to another tank
if i should leave the babies with them or take them out.
how do i tell when their ready to breed

i have two red forest jewels in the tank male and female with a black ghost knife and pearl gourami. i know its not the best combo but at the moment i am strapped for space and they have been togeather since they were little

any way any info or suggestions would be a ppriciated

cheers

[devil san]

i got mine to breed by raising the temp to about 26 deg. (from 22) and had a bare tank ( no tank mates, just a thin layer of gravel and a large rock ) and put a large plant in to give them some cover, and they breed like rabbits:p but to be honest, if they are ready to breed, not much will stop them. i had to remove their tankmates as the male became very agressive toward them.
give it a go, and good luck!:D

[firedragon92]

hey thanks mate

i have my tank temp now at about 26 degrees should i drop it and then put it back up after a week or just leave it

would u recommened i take out the other fish and did you leave your babies with the parents

cheers

[joz]

hey thanks mate

i have my tank temp now at about 26 degrees should i drop it and then put it back up after a week or just leave it

would u recommened i take out the other fish and did you leave your babies with the parents

cheers

You could just try some 20-25% water changes with a slight temperature drop.
This usually triggers a fishes breeding behaviour aswell a feeding with live food.


Soorry pardon my edit on your post,I didn't change anything.I hit the wrong button.:o

[firedragon92]

i dont want to force it just if their ready their ready. i know they will eventually do it, but just need to know whether to take out the babies or leave them with the parents if they are the only fish in the tank

cheers

[joz]

I'd leave them,they are usully very good parents.
But if you do remove them they'll probably breed again within a week.
So you'd want plenty of tank space for all the extra young'ns.

[firedragon92]

ok thanks ill give that a shot and if it doesn't work and they get killed or eaten then they will breed again soon after so it would be sad but not too bad. how many times a year would they breed a year if i left the babies in each time and would it be ok if i added in some more females to build up a colony or would they eat each others babies

cheers

[joz]

If kept in condition they'lljust keep breeding as soon as its possible.Though the addition of extra females would more than likely just cause fights as they compete to pair for the male in the tank,they're not colony breeders.

Just be careful the fry are quite fast growing and soon you'll have more Jewels than you'll know what to do with.

It's great to keep breeding fish but make sure you can move them on easily because you'll get caught with a gazillion of them.
Jewels can be difficult to sell because they are such prolific breeders and are not in short supply.

[firedragon92]

yeah thanks mate
i might just keep them alone what other ciclids and catfish would you recommend to keep with them so they wont eat the babies or get killed cheers

[devil san]

with mine, the male attacked EVERYTHING that moved in the tank, they are like convicts in that they breed very often, and are very protective of their young, i left it at 26 and they loved it, you will know if they do, as the male will go dark red, and the female will go almost fluro orange, and they will clean a area to lay their eggs on.
just keep a eye on the temp and water quality, and they will do the rest!

[firedragon92]

thanks man

my male is already dark red however my female is not even looking orange, so in that case mybe they are two different species or prehaps not even red forest jewels as that is just what i was told. They could be crinsom jewels but i would asume breeding would be similar.

the male has started digging out a cave however the BGK keeps stealing it off him should i move the knife in to a 2 foot tank where it would not be as happy but at least the jewels will be.

and also if i post a pic of them both would you be able to help me with an id just to be 100% sure.

cheers

[devil san]

post a pic up, cant hurt!
they may both be RFJ's, but the female may not be ready to breed yet. be patient, you cant rush it

[devil san]

be patient, set things up right, and this is what you shall recieve...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1425/653903114_25e355246e.jpg
well worth the effort :P

[firedragon92]

cool thanks ill get see if i can get some pics now put if not ill post em tommorow when i get back from work

[firedragon92]

ok these are the best pics i could get as i startled them hopfully you can ID them or anyone can ID them

your jewel is awsome:)

There are two pics of each

the dark red one is obviously the male

I was also wondering about tank mates i know they get very agressive when breeding would i be able to have a breeding pair of convicts in there as well because they are almost as agressive. What other ciclids would i be able to put with them and what catfish could i put in there, i was thinking Cuckoo. i would set up the tanks so that it has got two or even three cave sections if i can get three pairs in there the sections would be quite large and i could have a planted section in the middle, what plants would be ideal to go with the jewels.

Also if i wonted could i have the jewels in there with one or more other breeding pairs or would that be too hard i was origianally going to have a jewel colony but have been told its not such a good idea, is it? or can i do it?

Sorry but i really want to know as much as i can so i dont mess it all up

cheers

[devil san]

thats aint my jewel, thats just a pic i found on google ! hehehe, my jewels are long gone, and i dont know if i still have pics, i put that one up for dramatic effect :P

as long as you dont kill the parent fish, you cant mess anything up really, as they are doing all the work!!
unless it was a big tank, i would attempt to breed with other fish in there, as even if the jewels dont attack them, the other fish will eat any fry that wander away.....and they allways wander away!!

and to me it just looks like the female is just not ready to breed, but the male may work his mojo and get her in the mood !
its the same as people, good food, good drink (in their case water quality) and some barry white !!! hahahaha!!!!!

[firedragon92]

hey thanks for your advice its good to know that they are both the same species im patient and happy to wait. what other ciclids would be best to go with the jewels i will probably get a pair of convicts. Also what catfish would be good i was thinkink Cuckoo cats any other sugestions.

What i might do is buy a couple of tank dividers and if one or more lay eggs i can sperate them and the eggs from the others. would that be a good idea or should i just move the eggs with the parents to another tank.

sorry about all the questions but im new to breeding and theres only so much you can get off the internet.

cheers

[devil san]

you dont learn if you dont ask!! i aint no pro either, its just that i have bred these and simese fighters, protomales, and severums before, so if you can learn anything from my mistakes, im more than happy to help!

[firedragon92]

ok cool um i was just wondering how the convicts would go with the jewels and if you have ever breed two different species in the same tank. i have done some reading and am not worried about the convicts as they are fearless and tuff as nails, however i would be worried about the jewels although if i got the convicts small they would probably get used to the jewels and they would be fine i hope what are ur or anyones thoughts.

also what would be some other good tankmates and catfish i am thinking picus Cuckoo or stripped raphael

cheers

[Woodsy]

All the catfish you've named there are primarily carnivores, and as such, actively hunt things like fry. Aside from that, they are notoriously hard to breed (assuming that is what you're trying to do here), especially the Cuckoo's (Synodontis multipunctatus), who will need to live with a colony of mouth-brooders if you want to breed them.

[firedragon92]

hi thanks for your help

however i was not going to try and breed them as i found out they where very hard to breed

i did not know they would eat the fry so i probably wont go with them what catfish would you recommend to go with the jewels amd convicts that will not eat the fry or get killed.

also what other fish would go good with them

cheers

[devil san]

if you want other tankmates in with the jewels, then dont guarantee that any fry will survive, because (as was the case with mine) as soon as the fry are a few weeks old, the jewels will be looking to breed again, and will not actively defend the fry from predators. if you want guaranteed success, then its going to be a jewel only tank.
and as stated above, almost all catfish will snack on your fry mate! my advice, set up two tanks, a jewel breeding tank, and a comunity tank. as the jewel fry grow out, you can then add them to the community tank when they are big enough!

[joz]

Or if your feeling a bit more adventurous.You could remove the eggs if laid on a rock by removing the whole rock into a separate tank for hatching and growing.
Really all you need is some methylene blue and an air stone for circulation in an already setup tank with a mature filter (not cannister) eg; sponger filter.

When the eggs hatch and the fry are free swimming just feed them some fry food.

[wombat1100]

you make it sound so easy Joz!!!!!!!!

[firedragon92]

thanks for your advice guys i think ill out the convicts and jewels in a tank togeather with a see through divider so they can take out their aggression on each other and not their parteners. i wont get any cats hovever i might let the parents raise the fry for a few weeks and then once they get too big pull them out and put them in their own tank.

i was wondering if anyone who has experience with breeding could tell me where they advertised there babies, was it just on the internet or did you guys sell them to aquariums too. if you sold them to aquariums what did you ask for and how

cheers

[wombat1100]

in my experience in selling fish, though limited, i found it better to sell privately through forums like this and the trading post, the aquariums will give you next to nothing for them or just store credit, i found if you ask 50 to 75% of store price for your fish on forums you have a good chance of selling them.

[Woodsy]

This emphasises what I have said before too - If you're going to breed fish with the intention of making money from it, you have to be selective of the lines you are going to do, and then do them better than anyone else. This means getting rid of runts or fish with deformities, anything that isn't really good quality. Spend some time reading or talking to other hobbyists about the species we're allowed to have here and sell, but aren't allowed to import (eg. Bristle Nose, American cichlids, ect.) and then spend the money getting yourself some good parental stock.
If you're going to do things that we can import, my points here are even more important. Your fish then have to be so good that a store will buy them in preference to cheap overseas wholesalers, and even then, your prices will have to be competitive.
But the most important part of all is, if you're in it for cash, it's all about supply and demand. If you've got something that there is little demand for, it's going to sit in your tanks costing you money. Conversely, if you have something in high demand but can't produce enough of them, chances are the shops will find someone who can.

[joz]

All good points woodsy.
If you are going to breed make sure that they're something thats thats sought after on a regular basis.

Not really worth the effort for things that are seloling for $5 ea retail.
Its all well and good to get familiar with fish keeping and breeding with cheaper fish so that if if there is a massive failure of sorts it isn't going to cost a bomb.
But just don't expect a financial profit.
Remember that it costs time, food at electricity with probably a few months of effort.Also certain fish although being quite attractive have limited sale appeal.
I'd probably put Jewels and convicts in this catorgory because they are never in short supply and because they can get a bit bullish.

IMO opinion try your hand with dwarf cichlids first(always sought after by aquariums) then move onto some specialist fish.Catfish are always in demand aswell but there are other worthwhile contenders to chose from too.
Remember other than the intial outlay,it costs similar to breed and raise $2 fish and $50 fish.

Thats why years ago my aim were Discus,people were lining up at my place to spend between $20-50 per juvenile fish all because i was the cheapest in Melb.

One day soon I hope to be onto my next breeding project,if my wife lets me go silly with tanks again..:rolleyes:



you make it sound so easy Joz!!!!!!!!





Honestly Dazz it was that easy,didit with many species.
Also with discus I'd use foster parents with some batches of fry amiongst other techniques.

[firedragon92]

Thanks guys

i will only breed the jewels to get the hang of breeding and then once a get good at it i will move on to something harder and more profitable.

thanks for all your help guys and hopf ully soon you will see some jewels fry advertised

cheers

[cichlidboy]

condition male and female.
best to take the male out and let the female settle.
Pearl gourami will definitely die if you dont take him out.
after they breed.
it's your choice depending on whether you want the fry to live or not.
The BGK will eat everything you've been trying so hard for in one night.

TJ

[cichlidboy]

forgot to add that the female will "bloat" with eggs.
male cleans up a piece of slate and will go through a short mating ritual with female if shes receptive.

TJ

[firedragon92]

ive moved out all the other fish and will start conditioning as soon as i can get a divider as i have no suitable tank space left

[billy3000]

hey guys. i recently got a pair of these from my LFS, newbie cichlid guy here..

we were reasonably sure i had a male and female - the female was very bloated when i got her.. they are in a 40 ltr tank by themselves, good water test on the weekend.. did a water change of 30% last weekend as well. good cave and gravel, no plants, temp is 26'c, ph is about 7.4, no other water issues

the problem is that they are just hiding in the cave i made for them, almost never leave, almost no eating.. no spawn that i can see.. they must be eating it. they are always very close to each other.. either its love or they are both sick! they have both gone quite dark in colour as well - still see the neon blue dots shining.. just the rest of them is dark

do you think they are going to make it? i really wanted them to breed.. would appreciate any tips you can give me.'

Bill

[firedragon92]

are they turning dark red becuae if they are they are probebly getting red to breed also i would check the type of foor you are using as it might not be suitable for cichlids. also if it is i would recommend changing it up with some frozen blood worms or another food every now and again just so they dont get sick of their food.

the cave behaviour is quite normal in my experience as they will make it their territory however they should still be chasing each other around outside. you will know when they are about to breed as the male will probably dig a hole and they will begin to lip lock.

also i would consider getting a larger tank as when they become full grown and expecially if you want them to breed they will need more space so the female can have a break from the female.

any other questions just ask

chhers

[billy3000]

thanks for the response... re the floor comment.. i have black fine gravel.. should i be using something else? i do have heaps of white marble chip i can put in there?

[firedragon92]

hey yeah that gravel should be fine however i mant to say food because not all food is suited for cichlids

[billy3000]

i think were getting closer!!!:)

[billy3000]

we were getting closer.. she died over night!! RIP

she had a fair anount of what looked like bruising all over her body, and it seems that most of her colour had gone - not sure if it was before or after she died. water test yesterday was fine except for low ph .. not sure if that was enough to kill her? or maybe the male beat her up?

not sure what to do with him now - do i get more and try again, what else can go with red forest jewels??

[firedragon92]

hey buddy sorry to hear that she died

there is probably nothing wrong with your tank i would say your male just got impatient and it ended badly.

the only thing with getting more is that you will have to buy them at the same size or just wait other wise they will get killed unless you buy 4 or 5 at once then they will have a chance.

you might find the male will get a bit lonly so if at all possible i would move him in to a community cichlid tank if at all possible

utherwise if you decide not to try again and he is too agressive for your tank your only option is to get rid of him.

sorry mate

[billy3000]

thanks for the condolences :) i took him back to my lfs..just wondering, do they ever give money back? i know st kilda dont.. anyone ever get money back from their lfs?

[firedragon92]

yeah LFS will never give cash back however you can get store credit or product/fish exchanges

[cichlidboy]

its most probably the male.
it's still a loss though.
always hard to see something go terribly wrong after so much effort was put in to it.
sorry to hear.
although, i must say.
she had a MASSIVE breeding tube!!!

[firedragon92]

yeah it was pritty big

my jewels are starting to do their breeding rituals now so i will have to keep a close eye on them as they have been lip locking, but fingers crossed

[cichlidboy]

thanks for the condolences :) i took him back to my lfs..just wondering, do they ever give money back? i know st kilda dont.. anyone ever get money back from their lfs?

nah mate, its because they can buy fish for soo much cheaper.
unless you have a fully grown toga or something along the lines.
it wont really be worth it for you either.
getting fish from your lfs as a trade (depending on what species)
could do you better

TJ